Curse

Moa Bird Cultist · Jan 15, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Hmmm, well there are so many ways around this, that I dunno where to begin...

My opinion 1st: current AI is "A Good Thing" (tm)

I'll be frank, I don't load my bar with skills to deal with kiting, in fact, more often than not, I don't run a single skill on my bar that will let me catch the enemy monks. It's far easier to not chase them and have ranged support blow them away while you deal with enemy units that would prove a threat to your squishies.

Oh, uh...

Quote:

lol @ the people that can't deal with kitting AI. There are hundreds of skills to deal with kitting foes. People need to drop the "Tank" mentality and start dealing some damage.

...I don't think I've ever come across a statement that contradicted itself more than this does... Well, maybe it doesn't contradict itself, but chasing a monk endlessly is the polar opposite of this.

As for 'tank' mentality, I don't know. The flaw in the tactics of many people here is that they go for the monk themselves, which isn't productive. The easiest way to achieve what I outlined above is simply to lock the damage dealing ranged heroes on to the monk and let them blast him. this frees you to go after the more dangerous squishies, who are less inclined to leg it as soon as you get in stabbing distance. And I know all about stabbing, oh yes...

Anyway, I won't call anyone stupid or anything like that, but I can deal with the enemy AI with a warrior build that includes 4 attack skills, 3 pet skills, (Heal as One FTW,) and a Resurrect. And thats a fact.

stueyman2099 · Jan 15, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Anything that makes the AI is harder to kill is fine by me. Hell, I'm in favor of making more monsters with monster only skills that do stupid overpowered things like remove all enchants from everyone and blackout skills at the same time. The game needs more challenge.

Akaraxle · Jan 15, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

If the friggin medic is running around it makes him pretty hard to nuke since projectiles miss him and he runs out of AoEs.

You don't understand, young Padawan. YOU NEED MORE NUKING! More Nuking = More Win, that is the universal rule of PvE.

They run out of Meteor Shower? Nuke them in the face with Searing Flames or whatever! Projectiles miss? Liquid Flame/Rodgort's Invocation! Snares are overrated; utility is overrated; the only thing you need to do in PvE is crush their resistance and healing capability with MORE NUKING. Kiting might save them from those ridiculous warriors, but not from burnination action!

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 15, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

You don't understand, young Padawan. YOU NEED MORE NUKING! More Nuking = More Win, that is the universal rule of PvE.

They run out of Meteor Shower? Nuke them in the face with Searing Flames or whatever! Projectiles miss? Liquid Flame/Rodgort's Invocation! Snares are overrated; utility is overrated; the only thing you need to do in PvE is crush their resistance and healing capability with MORE NUKING. Kiting might save them from those ridiculous warriors, but not from burnination action!

QFT more nuking please!

Patrick Smit · Jan 15, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Yeah why nuke the monk if u can kill the closest one in seconds

freekedoutfish · Jan 15, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

The only bad thing about the AI, is the new feature of "run away when we're getting attacked by the good guys".

It a good idea, but when the creature runs off for a good mile and your AI chases them right into another mob its too much.

bungusmaximus · Jan 15, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Not very clever to bring up corsairs as an example for retarded AI, corsairs are annoying pieces of ****, but they ar DELIBERATELY programmed to be. If I do missions with corsairs in them they always act funny and kite away from you. Locking heroes on their medics isn't very smart as the heroes will start to follow them behind enemy lines and get pwned.

Going straight for the enemy monks isn't always the most clever thing to do in the first place. All your melee runs past the enemy melee and the enemy melee goes straight for your squishies. Believe me ive seen it happen many times since I only play ranged/caster units (me playing monk: melee rushes for healers, melee gets out of range, splut->ZOMG HEAL ME U NOOB MONK). If you encounter a mob just outdamage the AI monks and save hem for last. Outdamaging isn't hard with an 8 person party size, just focus fire

.

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 15, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

It a good idea, but when the creature runs off for a good mile and your AI chases them right into another mob its too much.

Just nuke more, no problem, more nuking=win.

Dead mobs don't do dmg, so nuking is key.

Shaq_gw · Jan 15, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muk Utep

It's true that the AI is a bit wonky, and it's extremely annoying when enemies start running in circles endlessly. The simple way to beat that is to bring a running skill or a snare skill. Most professions have one of those, and even though it tends to not fit too well into a PvE skillbar, it's better than pulling your hair out while running in circles after that Kournan Priest.

Do not make the medic your first target. And if he does run, stop attacking for a second .. he will stop. Then attack all at once

Tetris L · Jan 15, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckman Joney

The AI in NF is stupid..the medics just continuously run in circles and cause the utmost agitation!

How is that "stupid"? It's a simple form of kiting, which is something many human spellcaster do when being attacked and chased. It's actually pretty smart. At least it seems to work fine against you.

Verek · Jan 15, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

How is that "stupid"? It's a simple form of kiting, which is something many human spellcaster do when being attacked and chased. It's actually pretty smart. At least it seems to work fine against you.

First of all running round and round in circles is 'stupid' as is running into a cliff/wall and try to run though is as apposed to around it.

Please also don't assume that we cannot 'cope' with this behaviour, I can only speak for myself, but I don't like it, it makes this game less enjoyable for me, it hasn't made it any harder it just takes a bit longer, thats all.

The game has changed since I first started playing (about one and a half years ago) and for me it has got worse, for some it has got better.......oh well that's life.

Phoenix Ex · Jan 15, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

What is MOST annoying(and the only thing I hate dealing with)...is those rigged 10x HP 10x armor half hex duration cheating MONK bosses with fast cast spells that just won't stop running. Snare worked to bring his HP down to 70% then when the snare wears off twice as fast (thx to CHEAT) the boss cast two spells with CHEATING attribute and heal back to full -.-. Then when we finally managed to disable a few of its spell...it managed to kite into 3 other mobs causing our warriors to aggro them

. Then we have to deal with the extra aggro while the disabled monk boss spells gets re-enabled again......repeat...

Thankfully NF added Heroes, so that If I see a monk boss I just go afk and come back 10 min later....

My Sweet Revenga · Jan 15, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

You of course realize that if you're chasing them, they're obviously not doing their job of healing. So take advantage of that. Either that or just stop chasing them with your melee char and let your ranged attackers kill him.

Brother Andicus · Jan 16, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

You don't understand, young Padawan. YOU NEED MORE NUKING! More Nuking = More Win, that is the universal rule of PvE.

They run out of Meteor Shower? Nuke them in the face with Searing Flames or whatever! Projectiles miss? Liquid Flame/Rodgort's Invocation! Snares are overrated; utility is overrated; the only thing you need to do in PvE is crush their resistance and healing capability with MORE NUKING. Kiting might save them from those ridiculous warriors, but not from burnination action!

Gogo aka ultimate elementalist fanboy.

Sadly for once you are actually right. 2 Searing Flames elementalists and norgu pretty much annihilate everything NF has to offer.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

You don't understand, young Padawan. YOU NEED MORE NUKING! More Nuking = More Win, that is the universal rule of PvE.

They run out of Meteor Shower? Nuke them in the face with Searing Flames or whatever! Projectiles miss? Liquid Flame/Rodgort's Invocation! Snares are overrated; utility is overrated; the only thing you need to do in PvE is crush their resistance and healing capability with MORE NUKING. Kiting might save them from those ridiculous warriors, but not from burnination action!

As much as I see what you're saying...Searing Flames...wait...ANYTHING in the fire line is so so SO boring. Personally I get immense pleasure out of stopping that pesky medic moving anywhere...and yes I know SF will probably kill him in one hit but it really is dull. More people should play Earth... Eruption + Dragon's Stomp = teh win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Sadly for once you are actually right. 2 Searing Flames elementalists and norgu pretty much annihilate everything NF has to offer.

Now Norgu...He truly is "teh win"!

WasAGuest · Jan 16, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Anyone else notice the lack of understanding in all these dozens of AI threads? Everytime someone brings up their dislike or hatred for the AI these days, supporters jump in and begin to annalyse "your skill bar" and offer unwanted advise, "builds" and sollutions to work around bad coding... I have to ask why?

I've not seen a single request for builds, advise, or "how do I stop X from running and fighting back?".

The problem isn't that the AI is hard, easy or difficult to cope with (at least for me). Rather the AI is less fun than it used to be. I find it actually a real bore and rather than a "sweet I just took down that massive [insert mob name]" I find myself just releasing a /sigh after each fight. It's just not fun anymore; and the run-around AI is why.

Why is it less fun for me? Again, for you build advisors: it's not an issue with them running, it's an issue that because the run-around AI changed all mobs to now act like each other.

There are hundreds of mob races in GW, each should act differently. With the addition of the Benny Hill AI, all races act the same in battle... which is just like the Zaishen bots. After clearing two or three zones in PvE - you've now fought the exact same battle (maybe with a few different skills) time and time again. It's BORING; not fun.

On last time, for you build advisors: it's not about it being hard or having issues (for me anyway), it's dead boring now.

For those of us that do not like the AI now; this "issue" has been noted time and time again. It would seem Anet has no intention to fix it, so unless you are really determined to keep getting flamed by flameboys or having the topic go from AI issues to your skill bar, I would advise dropping it and moving on to another game. Talk to your friends and see if they will follow you to another game. If enough people stop buying GW chapters perhaps Anet will remove the fingers from their ears and fix the run-abouts. Perhaps they will listen to dollars, cause they are obviously not listening to the players complaints (which are still running rampant all over the net in many different forums).

Last word is all yours build advisors, I'll not visit this thread again to see what magical "work around build" you've come up with this week...

AW Lore · Jan 16, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

There are hundreds of mob races in GW, each should act differently. With the addition of the Benny Hill AI, all races act the same in battle... which is just like the Zaishen bots. After clearing two or three zones in PvE - you've now fought the exact same battle (maybe with a few different skills) time and time again. It's BORING; not fun.

and from all those races, only the humans (kournan/pirates) kite when you directly to their casters. they have a different "AI" as players requested from some time ago.

all other mobs, the bug monks, the heket monks, the tormented monks, the margonite monks, they all stay in place and only move if there is a firestorm or sandstorm on them.

so no, not all the mob races run around.

and the reason why players annalyze skill bar and give builds is because with a good skillbar, you can breeze through any area of the game, my warrior, assasin and ranger, they all have a permanent crippling skill, even if i use it rarely, the kiting ai is not a problem for me.

ashe5k · Jan 16, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I think the biggest issue with the AI right now is my levl 16 Dunkoro RUNNING from the lvl 4 Skale. Although he runs from anything that attacks him, this one sticks out in my mind as the most annoying. It's really annoying when you're fighting corsairs and he starts running and you get nailed because he's not healing you, he's running from a lvl 8 warrior when he's 16 and can take it.

There is an issue there people. I don't mind hunting the enemy monks and casters down with my dervish. I mind it when my monks are running aorund like chickens with their heads cut off over a creature that can do 6 damage a hit max to them.

That's bad AI.

reetkever · Jan 16, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dirigible

God, people are so bad at this game, so lazy, so desperately in need of a clue.

Kiting mobs are perfectly fine, because it's the most perfectly sensible thing to do if you're getting hacked and slashed to pieces. If you're the kind of warrior that likes to sit on his Dolyak sig all day and wait for the monsters to come to him to get butchered, guess your time's up. If you're one of those warriors that put 8 different attack skills on their bar with zero utility, guess your time is up too. This game is meant to be, and should always aim to remain challenging. In 95% of the PvE experience, it utterly fails to be so. And here you are, trying to get rid even of these last traces of challenge from it.

If you're melee, and you need to get something's that running to die, here's the options available for you:

1. Bring a speed buff (e.g. rush, sprint, charging strike, enraging charge, dash, any of the million dervish enchants and stances that make you run like you're wearing Adidas).
2. Bring KDs (e.g. any of the hammer ones, bull's strike, shove, horns of the ox).
3. Bring snares (e.g. YAA, crippling sweep, axe rake, hamstring, caltrops).
4. Bring shadowstep skills (e.g. death's charge, shadow of haste, AOD, shadow prison, and so on and on).
5. If you have none of those, you can always just count on your team's midline to use ranged skills to take them down (you weren't be trying to do this with 6 warriors and 2 monks by any chance, were you?)

PvE is so easy because you can prepare ahead for everything the monsters will be able to throw at you, since their skillbars are the same, and so are their tactics. Now, if even though you know they might try to run around you still don't make sure your team can rely on any of the above options, well, you don't deserve to beat those mobs, simple as that; you're bad at the game and you shouldn't get to finish it. It's like in any FPS. If you're counting on finishing the game with that pocket knife or that water gun, what right do you have to whine about them being insufficient to win? Bring out the chainsaws, bring out the machine guns, bring out the rocket launchers. As the game gets harder, you also need to get better, you need to select more powerful weapons (skills), you need to learn different tactics. Otherwise they might as well just delete everything after presearing, and we can go back there killing level 5 charr forever, right?

Do you remember the gear trick? How the mobs would just pile up on the tank, and you could just nuke and SS and barrage and trap them to death, and they would stubbornly just remain there to die, still trying to hack away at that tank? Well, that's where it seems you're trying to take this game again, back to mindless idiotic AI. If you just want to destroy things with no brain, grab your wallet, find the closest store, buy a kilo of lemons, take them home, place them on the table, then proceed to squish them into a pulp. Feel free to boast about how awesome you are while you do that. Who needs to kill charr in a videogame, when you can kill lemons that don't kite IRL!

You missed the point. It's not about hardness. It's about how friggin annoying the kiting is. Only thing kiting does is give us the option to 1). Screw our build over cause we need to stop casters or 2). Waste another 10 minutes every battle chasing the monk.

Kiting does NOT make the AI 'better' or 'smarter'. It just annoys the **** out of me. Saying that you can just bring a snare or KD is ****, I had my own builds, I had skills I want to take, but no, my builds got screwed over and I'm stuck with 3 skills that are permanently on my skill bar, and I can't even play axe. (Since heroes aren't doing anything against kiting, instead, they're too busy doing it theirselves).

I don't know what A-net tried to do when making monsters kite, but it's nothing more than a pain in the ***. Instead of trying to make a bloody chaos during every battle, they could do something else instead, like make the AI unpredictable, or just give them max dmg weapons. (No, the bosses who strike for 500 damage don't need a buff, but normal monsters do).

Heck when I wanna play PvE, I wanna kill them monsters, I don't wanna waste my time chasing some clowns with sticks. Neither do I want to completely change my playstyle just to stop the clowns with sticks.

And about the tanking: Good times, why was it changed again? AI is there to be killed, wether it's quick or slow.

I'm glad I don't pvp....

Master Sword Keeper · Jan 16, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I agree...The AI is so retarded.For instance. Monsters run away.
Wait im not done. yet.

"Come back monsters so i can kill you!" 25% health go away I cant heal!

Slat and you're dead. Failed a mission cause the AI script is completely and utterly pathetic. Given up on Guild Wars. Giving it a 5 month break until A-Net fixes this annoying thing or I'll just stop playing altogether.

I mean you cant go anywhere without fighting your way and end up dying anyway and I agree with the stupid Kournans..Priests and ritulists are running away now. *sigh gettin sick of it.